A house divided...

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction) 01/08/2020 at 15:00 • Filed to: None

0

61

While I wish my vote actually counted , I’m sure glad I’m not living in a battleground state this election year.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

MonkeePuzzle > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:09

3

this is very low resolution map of the US #1980VideoGame

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:09

5

i feel like playing tetris

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MonkeePuzzle 01/08/2020 at 15:10

2

1 pixel per inch elector.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 01/08/2020 at 15:13

2

You’re welcome.

CB > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:17

2

Makes sense. You should see our election. And yes, my vote in the middle of that sea of blue did not matter.

Colour key:

Orange - NDP - Left

Red - Liberal - Centre-Left

Dark Blue - Conservative - Right

Green - Green - Far left

Light blue - Bloc Quebecois - French

Dusty Ventures > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:17

2

No, you’re welcome

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:18

2

woohooo!

ill just watch that and listen to this tho :)

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Dusty Ventures 01/08/2020 at 15:22

1

Nice. But I really think they should’ve kept her going for like 15 minutes, faster and faster, until she fainted from lack of oxygen and collapsed.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Dusty Ventures 01/08/2020 at 15:25

1

wow... i’d heard korobei niki as a folksy song before on balalaika...but never with an orchestra

that was good

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > CB 01/08/2020 at 15:29

1

Green Party wins Vancouver, or it that across the bay?

There’s a movement here to do away with the Electoral College, but I don’t see it happening in my lifetime.

https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/state-status

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:31

1

Can I gerrymander my house?

Textured Soy Protein > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:33

0

I moved from a battleground (WI) to deep blue (MD) a couple years ago. My national votes “don’t count” because they’re part of the overwhelming majority here. I have plenty of in-laws back in WI, but with a couple exceptions the majority of them are quite the opposite of me politically. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 01/08/2020 at 15:34

0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Mander

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:36

1

Interesting that Texas isn’t solid red. There’s been talk of Texas flipping blue. I don’t see it, but Beto sure gave that scumbag Ted Cruz a run for his money. 

Tekamul > Textured Soy Protein 01/08/2020 at 15:36

3

Here in VT, I know every 4 years we’ll be the first state to be determined on election night. But it’s amazing when you read the comments on any local article, you’d swear the coin would flip just as fast in the opposite direction.

I find it such an odd dichotomy.  10% of the population makes 90% of the noise. I assume it's frustration. 

ttyymmnn > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 01/08/2020 at 15:37

1

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein 01/08/2020 at 15:38

1

How brutal was the advertising/phone call campaign in 2016?

Wait... Hillary thought it was in the bag, right? Yeah, she screwed up (trusted her pollsters).

https://www.businessinsider.com/clinton-losing-wisconsin-results-2016-11

fintail > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:40

0

This makes me remember to smirk when thinking about how the votes of the batshit Trumpers in my family are meaningless in this so-far first world state.

I wonder if the upcoming election will see the will of the people subverted by 18th century logic again.

CB > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:45

1

Nope, across the bay.

CB > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:45

0

Nope, across the bay.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 01/08/2020 at 15:45

3

The Rs choice not to align themselves with the Hispanic population but instead lean hard into rigid immigration policies traded short-term gains with long-term losses.

Shift24 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:46

3

A reminder this prediction stuff is still just that, a prediction. Dont have a dog in the fight but just a note

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Shift24 01/08/2020 at 15:52

4

For sure. Hopefully all the pollsters and political strategists have learned their lesson. I didn’t want Trump to be president (didn’t want Hillary either...), but looking at the absolute shock on so many of the faces on all the CNN analysts that night was hilarious. It was a sure thing in so many of their minds (and mine as well, if I’m honest).

Will be interesting to see if any of the light red/blue states on the above map fall to the other side when all the votes are counted.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > CB 01/08/2020 at 15:53

5

needless to say... we spend more time figuring out how to get a majority to work together than actually getting shit done....

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 15:54

0

I hope you’re right. There is lots of talk about how the so-called “Family Values” platform of the right should appeal to Hispanics. But, as you say, the GOP is  banging the immigration drum so loudly that it can’t help but push Hispanics away. Still, Texas is gerrymandered to hell and back, and the state leads the nation in poll closures , along with many other efforts to disenfranchise poor and minority voters.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 01/08/2020 at 15:55

0

Sad...

Chariotoflove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 16:13

2

On the surface, one might think that the hispanics who are here legally, and thus can vote, might resent all those sneaking in illegally, and therefore be on the side of tighter immigration reform.  Maybe it’s because popular thought has turned immigration into a race issue.  I think that’s mostly misdirection and unfortunate.  What it really is mostly is an economic issue.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 16:15

1

The point of the electoral college was always to make the government more resistant to change. I don’t think that’s a bad thing in the age of detached social media influencers, even if it occasionally dilutes my vote.

Chariotoflove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 16:18

9

People in the middle of an overwhelmingly opposition state complain their vote doesn’t count. People in the middle of their own persuasion also complain their vote doesn’t count. The only people without that complaint are the ones in the “battleground” states.

Really, everyone’s vote counts, especially for the local races, which have a much greater effect on everyone’s daily lives. I think the saddest thing is how man y people don’t go to the polls because they think their national vote is wasted, and end up not weighing in on their local schools, bond issues for infrastructure, etc.

Vote people. Always go vote.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 01/08/2020 at 16:30

2

The Founding Fathers assumed that each elector would be elected by the citizens of a district and that elector was to be free to analyze and deliberate regarding who is best suited to be president.

Madison and Hamilton were so upset by what they saw as a distortion of the original intent that they advocated a constitutional amendment to prevent anything other than the district plan: “the election of Presidential Electors by districts, is an amendment very proper to be brought forward,” Madison told George Hay in 1823. [40] Hamilton went further. He actually drafted an amendment to the Constitution mandating the district plan for selecting electors. [41] However, Hamilton’s untimely death in 1804 prevented him from advancing his proposed reforms any further.

So, the original idea was that we’d choose a person that we would trust to make the right choice for us, but now we just have some people who collectively cast votes for who the majority (of each state) chooses.

Seems like, if we did what Madison & Hamilton had in mind all along, everyone would feel like their vote would be more meaningful.

HammerheadFistpunch > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 16:35

1

Im really curious to see how it plays out this year in Utah. I know its traditionally red but if you look at the data it wasn’t as easy win for trump and its not going to be easier this time around given romney’s criticism of Trump (he’s WAY more popular here than Trump). They have downgraded from “safe republican” to “likely republican” Not to mention that Urban Utah is growing really REALLY fast and most of that is from blue states.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove 01/08/2020 at 16:37

0

I vote. Just not at the top of the ticket (sometimes).

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 01/08/2020 at 16:38

0

Plenty of dislike for Trump in Utah.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 16:39

0

Hmmm, how have I never heard this?

Th e Founding Fathers didn’t trust the electorate not to elect a tyrant, so this seems more in line with that thinking. The current system still  dilutes the electorate, but just for whoever can Gerrymander the districts (majority party).

Maybe that idea would be better than dissolving the electoral college, provided parties don’t butt in and destroy any bipartisan cooperation.

WRXforScience > Chariotoflove 01/08/2020 at 16:40

1

You also have to remember all the xenophobia and racism mixed in with the Republican talking points, they still pander too hard to the racist demographic that helped them defeat the “solid south” after Democrats quit supporting segregation (often referred to as Dixiecrats).

Without the segregationists Republicans wouldn’t have gotten Nixon and Rea gan into office, after that the racists were integrated into the party (whether Republicans wanted them to be or not).

Republicans have similar problems with gay people, black people, and non-christian religious groups.  

The urban areas of Texas are strongly Democratic leaning (Ft Worth is the only major city that isn’t a Democratic stronghold and even that bastion is crumbling). Austin, Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio all favor Democrats and with the less conservative parts of the state growing at some of the highest rates in the country, it’s only a matter of time before Texas is a battleground state.

When Texas is no longer a Republican counter to California in the Electoral College, Republicans will support abolishing it and going to a popular vote (demographic trends and some predictions put this tipping point happening as early as 2028 or early 2030's).

Until Trump, it looked like Republicans were toning down the overt racism, we’ll have to see if they pivot back to a more accepting and long-term strategy once he’s gone.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 01/08/2020 at 16:45

0

Gerrymandering really should have no bearing on the Electoral College vote - it only comes into play for House seats.

Chariotoflove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 17:01

0

That’s legitimate. I usually don’t vote for a race when I can’t decide and can’t get enough info.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove 01/08/2020 at 17:12

1

I just refused to put a mark down for either Trump or Hillary.

No write -in option in my state.

benn454 > CB 01/08/2020 at 17:15

1

LOL “In Canada, you’re either left, right, or French” is basically what you’re saying.

And I had to zoom in pretty far to even see any green.

benn454 > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 01/08/2020 at 17:16

1

 What a clusterfudge.

CB > benn454 01/08/2020 at 17:16

1

It’s more “left, right, or really not sold on this whole Canada thing”, although I think most of the separatism in the Bloc has been subdued.

If you had trouble finding Green, good luck finding the one NDP seat in Alberta, or finding the one independent!

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > benn454 01/08/2020 at 17:19

0

i thought that was funny too

Chariotoflove > WRXforScience 01/08/2020 at 17:20

2

I don’t accept the characterization of Republicans as racists and xenophobes. There is that element in society, and it most often identifies itself as Republican, but it’s not the defining or majo rity population in the party by any means.

Chariotoflove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 17:21

1

I can relate to that sentiment.

Textured Soy Protein > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 17:26

1

I wasn’t bombarded too badly by that because I had already cut the cord by then and wasn’t watching much of any tv with commercials on it, other than when I’d be at the gym and there were TVs in the background. I may have gotten a call or three during the Dem primary and I’m not remembering any during the general.

My experience on the ground in WI in 2016 was that most of the self-described independents who don’t like politics in general found both Trump and Clinton very distasteful as people so Hilary didn’t do well with them, and she didn’t show up at all in the state during the campaign.

At this point, my opinion on WI is t he only way for a Dem to win a statewide race there is to do huge voter turnout pushes among the minority communities in the Milwaukee and Madison areas to run up their vote counts there. The sense among those communities is that politicians of all stripes aren’t looking out for them and while they may lean Dem if they vote, they’re not always inclined to vote at all. Hilary didn’t do nearly the outreach that was needed. 

benn454 > Chariotoflove 01/08/2020 at 17:26

1

 Shhhhh. You're not supposed to see the other party as people. They're the enemy.

Chariotoflove > benn454 01/08/2020 at 17:29

0

Oops, sorry. I forgot for second that the world is binary.

Mid Engine > CB 01/08/2020 at 18:12

0

Meh, Ontario is Liberal, Quebec is Liberal/Bloc, BC is Conservative. The rest of the country doesn ’t matter

Mid Engine > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 01/08/2020 at 18:15

1

Washington State doesn’t get any candidates, Tr ump didn’t come here cuz h e knew it would be a waste of time, Hillary came to Bellingham once for a fundraiser and assumed the state would stay blue . There are p oc kets of Republicans on the other side of the moun tains, but really the west coast is Democratic for the most part. I’m in favor of eliminating the federal government altogether, they get absolutely nothing done.

CB > Mid Engine 01/08/2020 at 18:15

0

Considering the way the Liberals are trying to respond to the sea of blue, I’d argue we matter. Also, BC is Conservative?

Mid Engine > CB 01/08/2020 at 18:30

0

Seems to be conservative every time I visit BC; hard to characterize as at least in the Greater Vancouver area the demographics are primarily Chinese immigrants (who may or may not have citizenship )? But yeah, BC, Ontario, Quebec have the economic clout to move the needle whereas the rest of the provinces not so much. 

CB > Mid Engine 01/08/2020 at 18:32

0

Parts of Vancouver are Conservative majority, but the area as a whole is more left leaning.

slipperysallylikespenguins > Mid Engine 01/08/2020 at 19:43

0

There is still red on the west side, as soon as you get past Olympia its all red and half of the peninsula.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > benn454 01/08/2020 at 23:19

0

ayup....also doesnt help that purple is a pretty new party...anti immigration anti europe rightwing liberals....

they’re doing really well for themselves 

benn454 > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 01/09/2020 at 08:11

1

I was confused by the phrase “right wing liberals” for a second until I remembered that the Democratic Party would be considered right wing conservative in Europe.

They sound like a lovely bunch...

benn454 > CB 01/09/2020 at 08:12

0

I wouldn’t turn my backs on em if I were you.

Never trust an elf, I mean, Frenchman!

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Chariotoflove 01/09/2020 at 12:26

0

He’s clearly talking about the Republican party, not Republican citizens. And can’t really argue against it – there are, and I know plenty of fine Republicans who are the farthest thing from a racist – but there absolutely is a very toxic minority as you noted . Trump focuses entirely on that minority, and the Republicans in the house and senate for the most part have tagged themselves to that bandwagon in the name of short-term survival.

Just look at everyone from Ted Cruz to Lindsay Graham who found Trump to be a despicable race-baiting bigot before his nomination, and today there isn’t an inch of daylight to be found between them and the president.

Chariotoflove > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 01/09/2020 at 13:24

0

Are you sure there isn’t some conflating of racism with nationalism going on here? I don’t see Republicans drumming up animosity against Mexicans because they are brown or somehow genetically inferior, or because of their Spanish heritage. What I see is anger about people who aren’t American citizens or in the country legally sneaking in and allegedly taking  resources/jobs/healthcare/etc. away from those that paid their dues and did it properly. Now, I think that’s destructive in its own way, because it leads to blaming that group of people for things that aren’t necessarily their fault (i.e:  scapegoat-ism), but that’s another conversation.  To stay on point, what I’m saying is, I don’t see anger against people of Mexican heritage or birth who are citizens.  If we lived in an alternate universe where the people sneaking across the border were the Canadians, for example, I think the nationalist opposition would still be there, but we would no longer be calling it racist.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Chariotoflove 01/09/2020 at 13:48

1

OK I see what you’re saying and get your point about elected Republicans as a group. Trump himself – between his comments about the Mexican American judge, shithole countries, Mexican rapists, fine people on both sides when it comes to white nationalism etc. (not to mention a host of very unsavory race-related actions from before becoming president) – at the very least he has extremely racist tendencies. For the Rs in the house and senate – you’re right that they haven’t said these things themselves, or approved of the president saying such things so it’s not right to assign the same label on to them.

However it is extremely saddening, ( a nd affects the perception the public has on them – especially minority citizens) when these politicians don’t come out en masse with strong words of disapproval against Trump when he does these things. It’s important to show where you stand on things when you’re an elected official – especially when they’re so vocally supportive of him on certain topics, it’s easy for people to assume that they’re aligned with him on other horrible things he says and does. It’s a conscious decision they make to not go against the president for political reasons (i.e. a calculation that this topic isn’t important enough for them to take a stand on, and cost them the president’s favor), so they’re not entirely innocent in this happening either.

I do get your logic and appreciate you laying it out for the sake of reasonable discussion!

Chariotoflove > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 01/09/2020 at 14:01

1

Well, thank you for talking with me about it. It’s almost impossible to have these discussions calmly these days.

I have to confess that I don’t follow Trump’s tweets or watch most of his speeches. I honestly don’t like to grimace that much; it hurts my face. If he’s actually saying racist things, that disturbs me greatly. He’s also been caught saying sexist and misogynistic things throughout his life, which is why I didn’t want him as President. Republicans are in a very difficult spot. Almost none of them wanted him to be their standard bearer, but he stormed in and stole it from them. Now, as long as the economy stays strong into next year, he has the inside track to reelection, and that means they risk losing both wings of elected government if they come out and damage him by arguing . It’s a real gut-check for them. I do think there is a way to come out vocally for traditional Republican economic values while distancing oneself from damaging demagoguery , but it’s a fine line to walk, and I don’t know if most of our elected officials are skilled enough to manage it.

Circling back to my original point, I do wish we could separate race and nationalism from our discussions of border control, because I do think we need to address border security and immigration reform, and all this junk gets in the way of productive conversation.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Chariotoflove 01/09/2020 at 17:22

1

Your last paragraph I can agree with wholeheartedly. Being an immigrant who finally became a citizen after 17 years last year I’m all for meaningful immigration reform - the current system is absolutely broken for immigrants rich, poor, educated, and destitute. There is SO much common ground we could agree on and make meaningful changes that people on both sides actually do agree on.